Element: Any Opinions
Question:
>> >Is the TSX a car or a mini SUV or what? > >If it is a car, how does it fit in with the RSX? > The TSX is basically a performance Euro-Accord. It’s only relation to the > RSX is that it’s supposed to fit the market hole left by the lack of a > 4-door "Integra". >The 4 door Integra was a well priced car, I doubt the TSX will be the same (price >wise) when packing a 200HP DOHC engine.
Yeah well there *is* a bit of a move up market there but so is everything else. For the marketroids it fills the hole… and there *is* a 200bhp 6-speed DOHC RSX Type S which will be in the same $$ ball park. I must say I wouldn’t not want to lay out the $$ for some of the "standard" fluff-features of the TSX but I doubt they’ll ever release a base version. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
Response:
> >Is the TSX a car or a mini SUV or what? > >If it is a car, how does it fit in with the RSX? > The TSX is basically a performance Euro-Accord. It’s only relation to the > RSX is that it’s supposed to fit the market hole left by the lack of a > 4-door "Integra". > The 4 door Integra was a well priced car, I doubt the TSX will be the same (price > wise) when packing a 200HP DOHC engine.
itll also be more luxury and less sport
Response:
> >Is the TSX a car or a mini SUV or what? >If it is a car, how does it fit in with the RSX? > The TSX is basically a performance Euro-Accord. It’s only relation to the > RSX is that it’s supposed to fit the market hole left by the lack of a > 4-door "Integra".
The 4 door Integra was a well priced car, I doubt the TSX will be the same (price wise) when packing a 200HP DOHC engine. Pars – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rgds, George Macdonald > "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
Response:
oops! I guess nothing gets by you, George. I’m getting the extra lobe (on the high performance VTEC) mixed up with the sohc vs dohc issue. Pars – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t think so. >I believe the DOHC 2.4L (200HP, 166ft-lb) is schedule to debute in the spring >with the release of the Acura TSX. Judging from the TSX’s stats, it’s probably >going to blow the competition out of the water. > SOHC i-VTEC? AFAIK all i-VTECs are DOHC – never seen mention of anything > else. Some, as in the RSX Type S, have inlet+exhaust VTEC and others, base > RSX, Civic Si, Accord, have only intake VTEC. Even there they all have > different tuning and max rpms. > Rgds, George Macdonald > "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
Response:
>Is the TSX a car or a mini SUV or what? >If it is a car, how does it fit in with the RSX?
The TSX is basically a performance Euro-Accord. It’s only relation to the RSX is that it’s supposed to fit the market hole left by the lack of a 4-door "Integra". Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
Response:
At high speeds, I would feel more secure in car that has great balance and dynamic. A nose heavy car with a primitive suspension system is less forgiving at the extremes. When analyzing the stats, the TSX seems to have a very forgiving setup. Pars 98 Hatch – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Non sequitur. I said GLX–which has the 24v VR6 engine, an engine that > > you have to experience to believe. No 4 cylinder from Honda can compare > > in terms of driving experience. (Owning experience, I won’t talk about.) > Driving experience? Isn’t that rather subjective on your part? The VR6’s > only uniqueness is its compact size due to the narrow V arrangement. It’s > power ouptput is nothing special at all. > I’ll dispute that. Put that engine in a relatively small car, and watch > out. > Jetta GLX VS TSX: > Global compact platform – Global midsize platform > 5-speed automatic – 6-speed close ratio manual > Huh? No automatic on the GLXs *I* look at. Are you trying to spin the > facts here?
Response:
>> > I would definitely like to see some more accessories for > >camping added to the Element and perhaps the DOHC 2.4L in the future. > Which DOHC 2.4L is that? It already has one. >Honda has a concept version call the ‘Studio E’ that probably has the DOHC >engine. However, the current Element has the regular SOHC 160hp i-VTEC engine.
Don’t think so. >I believe the DOHC 2.4L (200HP, 166ft-lb) is schedule to debute in the spring >with the release of the Acura TSX. Judging from the TSX’s stats, it’s probably >going to blow the competition out of the water.
SOHC i-VTEC? AFAIK all i-VTECs are DOHC – never seen mention of anything else. Some, as in the RSX Type S, have inlet+exhaust VTEC and others, base RSX, Civic Si, Accord, have only intake VTEC. Even there they all have different tuning and max rpms. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
Response:
> > > As far as I can tell, in size, in power/weight ratio, and in price, it > > competes with–drum roll, please–the Jetta GLX. > In a comparisons test, the RSX was able to beat out the GTI 1.8T even thow > the GTI got extra points for having the best interior and the most > civilized ride. > Non sequitur. I said GLX–which has the 24v VR6 engine, an engine that > you have to experience to believe. No 4 cylinder from Honda can compare > in terms of driving experience. (Owning experience, I won’t talk about.)
Driving experience? Isn’t that rather subjective on your part? The VR6’s only uniqueness is its compact size due to the narrow V arrangement. It’s power ouptput is nothing special at all. The 1.8T offers a similar level of power, although with a different curve shape that requires more driver attention to keep the boost going. In any case, I doubt many people who race or review cars for a living would pick the VR6 over the S2000’s 2.0L I4. > The fact that the V6 Accord can beat out the V6 Passat should be some > indicator of the kind of damage the TSX can do against the competition. > Possibly. However, the V6 Accord will be a tremendously different beast > than any 4 cylinder Honda of any kind, TSX included. > But most importantly, we were talking about competition for the TSX–and > there’s no doubt the Jetta GLX is squarely in that marketplace. I’m not > sure what else is.
Jetta GLX VS TSX: Global compact platform – Global midsize platform 5-speed automatic – 6-speed close ratio manual Front McPherson struts – Front double wishbone Rear torsion beam axle- Rear 5-link double wishbone 16" H-rated tires – 17" V-rated tires 8.2 second 0-60 – Low 7 second 0-60 Yea, I’ll be looking at a Jetta when I shop for a TSX. > The Jetta GLX is also overpriced, but hey–VW thinks that if they ask > more, people will perceive that the car is worth more.
Excellent strategy for a large-volume manufacturer’s compact vehicle. Lee Cao
Response:
> > Judging from the TSX’s stats, it’s probably > going to blow the competition out of the water. > What does it compete with? > As far as I can tell, in size, in power/weight ratio, and in price, it > competes with–drum roll, please–the Jetta GLX.
You are kidding, right? For those of us looking closely at the TSX, the primary competitors consist of Audi A4 1.8T and BMW 325. The only "comparable" VW would be a very well loaded Passat. > And, quite frankly, I don’t think it’ll blow the Jetta GLX out of the > water. It’ll compete, but it won’t be a rollover.
Whatever you say. Lee Cao
Response:
> > Judging from the TSX’s stats, it’s probably > going to blow the competition out of the water. > What does it compete with? > As far as I can tell, in size, in power/weight ratio, and in price, it > competes with–drum roll, please–the Jetta GLX.
In a comparisons test, the RSX was able to beat out the GTI 1.8T even thow the GTI got extra points for having the best interior and the most civilized ride. The TSX packs an extremely torque 2.4L i-VTEC (for a 4 banger) engine and has the high reving ability as the RSX. This package should return an extremely good compromise between fuel efficiency and performance. Along with the package, is Honda’s vaunted double wishbone suspension and an high end interior (however the wood trim doesn’t look that great in photos). Also, the aggressive stance and the duel exhust makes for a sporting pose. 1.8T that available in the GLX is a great engine and the GLX has a very impressive leather interior, but I don’t think it would compare the TSX. The fact that the V6 Accord can beat out the V6 Passat should be some indicator of the kind of damage the TSX can do against the competition. Also, I’m more impressed with Honda’s 2.4L engine the it’s V6 and a DOHC version of that engine is all the sweeter. Pars 98 Hatch – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And, quite frankly, I don’t think it’ll blow the Jetta GLX out of the > water. It’ll compete, but it won’t be a rollover.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Honda has a concept version call the ‘Studio E’ that probably has the DOHC >engine. However, the current Element has the regular SOHC 160hp i-VTEC engine. >I believe the DOHC 2.4L (200HP, 166ft-lb) is schedule to debute in the spring >with the release of the Acura TSX. Judging from the TSX’s stats, it’s probably >going to blow the competition out of the water. >That 2.4L dohc engine sounds like a wicked engine…I wonder if it’ll drop into >my 98 Civic Hatch 
>Pars > Is the TSX a car or a mini SUV or what? > If it is a car, how does it fit in with the RSX?
It’s a sport sedan and suppose to go against the A4, IS300 and possible the 3 series. Here’s the link: http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/acura/TSX/index.html Pars
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I would definitely like to see some more accessories for > >camping added to the Element and perhaps the DOHC 2.4L in the future. > Which DOHC 2.4L is that? It already has one. >Honda has a concept version call the ‘Studio E’ that probably has the DOHC >engine. However, the current Element has the regular SOHC 160hp i-VTEC engine. >I believe the DOHC 2.4L (200HP, 166ft-lb) is schedule to debute in the spring >with the release of the Acura TSX. Judging from the TSX’s stats, it’s probably >going to blow the competition out of the water. >That 2.4L dohc engine sounds like a wicked engine…I wonder if it’ll drop into >my 98 Civic Hatch >Pars
Is the TSX a car or a mini SUV or what? If it is a car, how does it fit in with the RSX?
Response:
> > I would definitely like to see some more accessories for >camping added to the Element and perhaps the DOHC 2.4L in the future. > Which DOHC 2.4L is that? It already has one.
Honda has a concept version call the ‘Studio E’ that probably has the DOHC engine. However, the current Element has the regular SOHC 160hp i-VTEC engine. I believe the DOHC 2.4L (200HP, 166ft-lb) is schedule to debute in the spring with the release of the Acura TSX. Judging from the TSX’s stats, it’s probably going to blow the competition out of the water. That 2.4L dohc engine sounds like a wicked engine…I wonder if it’ll drop into my 98 Civic Hatch Pars – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Andy
Response:
> I would definitely like to see some more accessories for >camping added to the Element and perhaps the DOHC 2.4L in the future.
Which DOHC 2.4L is that? It already has one. Andy
Response:
> > The Element would probably be a good choice for more rugged and/or > recreational use. I would definitely like to see some more accessories for > camping added to the Element and perhaps the DOHC 2.4L in the future. > Well, they already have a tent. The interior is far too small for a > VW-Westfailia-style camper conversion even if they added a pop-top.
Is that tent similar to the one found on the Aztec? The type that allows for the hatch to be open flat so that a tent can be attached to the back? Also, the Aztec is equipped with a blow-up mattress… > It definitely needs more engine. They could at least change to the CRV > i-VTEC tuning.
Considering that the Element (5 speed) had very short gear ratio, I would expect a setup to take advantage of the higher rev’s. Pars – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> George
Response:
> I thought the element was suppose to be a cheaper version of the CRV. I > wouldn’t expect it to be as well equipped or as comfortable as it’s bigger > brother.
The Element is bigger in all dimensions except length (here it loses because the spare tire isn’t on the back). Surprisingly, I found the Element to be more a bit more comfortable and quieter than the CRV. The CRV seats are slightly more comfy, but the driver and passenger room in the Element more than makes up for it. They also put a right-side driver’s armrest in the Element, even with the stick. > The Element would probably be a good choice for more rugged and/or > recreational use. I would definitely like to see some more accessories for > camping added to the Element and perhaps the DOHC 2.4L in the future.
Well, they already have a tent. The interior is far too small for a VW-Westfailia-style camper conversion even if they added a pop-top. It definitely needs more engine. They could at least change to the CRV i-VTEC tuning. George
Response:
I thought the element was suppose to be a cheaper version of the CRV. I wouldn’t expect it to be as well equipped or as comfortable as it’s bigger brother. The Element would probably be a good choice for more rugged and/or recreational use. I would definitely like to see some more accessories for camping added to the Element and perhaps the DOHC 2.4L in the future. Pars – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the > Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he > mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better > buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element. > Thanks > Tom
Response:
> Is there some sort of contest going on among the Japanese car > manufacture to see who can design the ugliest vehicle and still > get people to buy them? First the Matrix and now the Scion van > and the Element.. They make the Aztek look like a beauty contest > winner. The people at the LA auto show, that might have enough > money to buy one, were laughing at them.. ;)
Well, they may not top (bottom?) the Aztek in looks, but I have a feeling that the Element may be a short-lived model. Their chief marketing targets aren’t going to like the power. New Honda models tend to be pre-sold for weeks or months after introduction, but the third, fourth, and fifth Elements our local dealer received (in an "upscale" suburb) didn’t have buyers waiting. They’re getting a lot of lookers, but checkbooks are staying in pockets. George
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the >> Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he >> mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better >> buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element. >I wrote a review of my test drive last weekend. You can see it here: >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Element+CRV&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=U… a >fe=off&selm=v36u692b8n3aae%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1 >Before you buy an Element, drive it back to back with a similarly-equipped >CRV. The only striking advantage I saw to the Element was rear seat legroom >for tall adults, but it comes at the cost of cargo space behind the seat. > Are you saying that the Element has less storage space than the CRV? > From exterior pictures I thought it would have significantly more. > That would take it off my list.
Unfortunately, yes. The Element has room for a single row of grocery bags behind the rear seat. The CRV has more than enough room for a double row with the rear seat in the full aft position, and 8 inches more room with the rear seat in the forward position. The Element looks bigger, and it feels bigger inside to the driver and passengers, but there isn’t much cargo room with the seats filled. George
Response:
Is there some sort of contest going on among the Japanese car manufacture to see who can design the ugliest vehicle and still get people to buy them? First the Matrix and now the Scion van and the Element.. They make the Aztek look like a beauty contest winner. The people at the LA auto show, that might have enough money to buy one, were laughing at them.. ;) mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the > Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he > mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better > buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element. > I wrote a review of my test drive last weekend. You can see it here: > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Element+CRV&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=U… > fe=off&selm=v36u692b8n3aae%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1 > Before you buy an Element, drive it back to back with a similarly-equipped > CRV. The only striking advantage I saw to the Element was rear seat legroom > for tall adults, but it comes at the cost of cargo space behind the seat. > Beware of newspaper reviews. They are often written with more of an eye to > pleasing advertisers than informing the public. All positives, no > negatives. > If the Toyota you are referring to is the Scion, it really isn’t all that > similar. > George
Response:
is there some sort of contest going on amour the Japanese car manufacture to see how can design the ugliest vehicle. The Scion X and the mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the > Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he > mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better > buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element. > I wrote a review of my test drive last weekend. You can see it here: > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Element+CRV&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=U… > fe=off&selm=v36u692b8n3aae%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1 > Before you buy an Element, drive it back to back with a similarly-equipped > CRV. The only striking advantage I saw to the Element was rear seat legroom > for tall adults, but it comes at the cost of cargo space behind the seat. > Beware of newspaper reviews. They are often written with more of an eye to > pleasing advertisers than informing the public. All positives, no > negatives. > If the Toyota you are referring to is the Scion, it really isn’t all that > similar. > George
Response:
I find www.caranddriver.com to be pretty informative. Maybe try there.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the > Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he > mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better > buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element. > Thanks > Tom
Response:
> I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the > Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he > mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better > buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element.
I wrote a review of my test drive last weekend. You can see it here: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Element+CRV&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=U… fe=off&selm=v36u692b8n3aae%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1 Before you buy an Element, drive it back to back with a similarly-equipped CRV. The only striking advantage I saw to the Element was rear seat legroom for tall adults, but it comes at the cost of cargo space behind the seat. Beware of newspaper reviews. They are often written with more of an eye to pleasing advertisers than informing the public. All positives, no negatives. If the Toyota you are referring to is the Scion, it really isn’t all that similar. George
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the > Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he > mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better > buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element. >I wrote a review of my test drive last weekend. You can see it here: >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Element+CRV&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=U… >fe=off&selm=v36u692b8n3aae%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1 >Before you buy an Element, drive it back to back with a similarly-equipped >CRV. The only striking advantage I saw to the Element was rear seat legroom >for tall adults, but it comes at the cost of cargo space behind the seat.
Are you saying that the Element has less storage space than the CRV? From exterior pictures I thought it would have significantly more. That would take it off my list. >Beware of newspaper reviews. They are often written with more of an eye to >pleasing advertisers than informing the public. All positives, no >negatives.
And often less professional and more biased than magazine reviews. For instance, the auto editor for the Chicago Tribune (for the last 23+ years) is an idiot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If the Toyota you are referring to is the Scion, it really isn’t all that >similar. >George
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I scrolled through the group, but did not notice and discussions of the Element. There was a positive review in my local newspaper although he mentioned that a similar car planned by Toyota would probably be a better buy since it seats five rather than four. Any opinions about the Element. Thanks Tom
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